Anshu Bahanda: Welcome to a new episode of Wellness Curated. As you know, we're doing the series Ancient Wisdom for Modern Living, and today's episode is about the Vedic Way of Life. So I have with me today a very special guest. We have Neema Majmudar, who's going to talk about the Vedic way of life. For 17 years, she was part of the UN, and she's worked in New York and the Fiji islands and Bangkok. After that, she's been teaching Advaita Vedanta, and she's been following the unbroken lineage from Adi Shankaracharya to Swami Dayananda Saraswati. And she now teaches and does seminars and classes all over Europe and in Asia. Welcome to the chat, Neema. Thank you for being here with us today.
Now, before we start, I'm going to talk a little bit about the Vedas and about Vedanta, just because we have people from all over the world with, you know, different levels of knowledge listening to this. So Vedanta literally means the end or the culmination of the Vedas. And the Vedas are these scriptures that the Hindu philosophy is based on. So there's basically four Vedas— Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samaveda, and Atharvaveda. And these contain hymns and rituals and spiritual knowledge which has been passed down through the generations. And Vedanta represents the essence of these teachings. A lot of it is about understanding your true nature and what the ultimate reality is. And the interesting thing about the Vedas is that it really, that knowledge really is timeless. It can be applied to the sages sitting in the forests, you know, thousands and thousands of years ago, and it can be applied to us today in our busy lives trying to attain peace of some sort. I'm going to share a very quick story, and Neema, correct me if I'm wrong. One day, a young disciple goes to a very famous sage. His name was Vyasa, and he was in a lot of turmoil, and he was feeling very disconnected with everything around him. He goes to Vyasa for wisdom. What Vyasa does is show him a drop of water from the ocean. He said, on its own, this is just a drop of water, insignificant, not capable of anything. But when you put it back in the ocean. When it's part of the ocean, it's all powerful, it's vast, it's infinite, and it's capable of anything. That really is the essence of Vedanta. That we are part of a bigger universe. And as part of this universe, when we're connected to this universe, we're capable of anything. We are the ultimate reality. When we start thinking of our body and our mind and our ego, then we're not capable of anything. We're just a little human being. And that gets me to your book, Neema, living with the vision of oneness, which touches on this concept. How do you see this idea applying in our very busy modern lives today?
NM: It's absolutely true, because it's such a big idea, you know, that you're part of some infinity everyone struggles with. How do I apply it in my day to day living? Right? Because I still have to go to work, I have to deal with my family. I have so many challenges. So how does the fact that I'm belonging to this whole big infinity impact me in my day to day living? But actually, the Vedas focus on that. Not only we are part of the whole, but we are interconnected. We are interconnected in a way that what I do impacts you and what you do impacts me. So suppose I do anything right out of boredom, just mechanically, not paying attention, being lax. You know, how many people are going to be inconvenienced because of that? You know, we never think about it. And not only people who are around us are impacted by it, but also people who are unknown to us. And if you give your best and you understand that the world is organised in a way that you can never escape from the consequences of what you do, then everybody will live responsibly.
AB: So now talk to me about what is the vedic way of life and Vedanta? Talk to me about those two concepts.
NM: Yeah. So, vedic way of life is basically a prayerful life. And what it means is that… The whole vision of Vedanta and Vedas is that there is this reality that we all have to become alive to, and that is this reality of oneness. The way it is explained is— so I'll just tell you a story from Upanishad. So in Chandogya Upanishad, Svetaketu goes to a gurukul and becomes a little arrogant because he is very smart. And his father sees this arrogance in his son. So he quietly asks him, ‘Did you ask your teacher for the knowledge, knowing which everything is known?’ And what was the reaction of Svetaketu? He says, ‘There is no such teaching’. But being smart and curious, he then said, ‘Father, if there is a teaching like that, may you teach me.’ And that's when the father starts teaching and the father gives an example. And what is the example? Suppose there is a world of ornaments. Suppose there is a ring, there is a necklace, there are earrings, and bangles. If each of them think that I am this individual, what will the ring think? ‘Oh, I'm so small and I'm so insignificant. Look at the necklace. It's so much bigger. It gets so much more prominence.’ So that kind of a competition, insecurity will start. But if the truth is taught— that all the ornaments are nothing but gold. Their forms are many, but their reality is only one. The ring says, ‘Wow, I'm essentially gold. But right now I am in the form of a ring. And anyway, I have my unique place because necklaces can be very prominent. But at the time of the wedding, it's me who gets the most prominence and that's the most important day of the person.’ So what does it mean? We all have a unique place in this universe and we come with a lot of possibilities and a lot of potentials, including knowing that you are part of this infinity. And we create such a small world for us. As a result of this small world, we are caught in our smallness. And, you know, every small thing upsets you and angers you. And we carry so much resentment and we feel, you know, life is not taking you anywhere. We have a sense of persecution. What kind of life are we making living from that smallness? How important it is to understand our reality and operate from there. It's highly liberating. That's why we call it a moksha pursuit. It frees you.
AB: Will you explain to me the difference, if we can clarify for the audience the difference between Veda and Vedanta?
NM: Yes, the first portion of the Veda, which is called Karma kanda, talks about, you know, this whole idea of interconnectedness. And, you know, acknowledging this interconnectedness, showing your gratitude towards the forces, not only just the people, but even the forces like the sun, the moon, the waters, the air, because there is a whole system out there which makes our life possible. So if you really think about it, the ocean water is not portable, but there is a whole system of rain and the rainfall and forming of the rivers, which makes it possible for all of us to have potable water. How many times we think about, you know, this whole great arrangement that makes our lives possible. In fact, we don't not only not think about it, but we dump all kinds of wastes in the river, totally oblivious to, you know, what role it is playing and how ultimately we are harming ourselves, you know, by not showing consideration. So the first portion of the Veda is actually living from this fact that showing gratitude, becoming responsible in your actions and, you know, being prayerful. Because in our life, so many things we want sometimes do not happen. So therefore, there is a sense of helplessness. And what do we do with that helplessness? Generally, we pretend that it doesn't exist. But we do feel helpless at times. You know, when you are helpless, acknowledge that helplessness, but don't remain helpless. Ask for help. What you have done is turned it around, that vulnerability. When you act on it and ask for help, you have actually acted on it. So it creates a positive variable for you, which strengthens you. So these are the things that Karma kanda teaches. But in spite of that, we still live from the vision— yes, you are interconnected to everything, but you're still an individual. You're still an individual, one of many. And as long as you think you are one of many, you know, you can't totally avoid some amount of fear, some amount of insecurity, even though you embellish yourself with these facts that vedas tell you. That's when you ask the final question. And what is that final question? What is my truth? What is the nature of the universe? What is the nature of the cause of the universe? So these are the questions which still remain unanswered. And when you seek the answer, then that's Vedanta, which is the end portion of the Veda which answers those questions which completely liberate you. The first portion of the Vedas is just about preparation. And the final portion of the Veda gives you the essential answers, which leads to complete freedom or moksha.
AB: Let's talk about the Vedic diet. So I know it involves natural food, unrefined food, mostly vegetarian. So explain what else is involved in the vedic diet.
NM: In Taittiriya Upanishad, it is said: Osadhibhyo annam and Annat purushah. From the five elements came aushadhi. Aushadhi is the plant kingdom which is actually medicinal. And from that plant kingdom, we don't eat everything, so some of it is consumed, and it becomes annam. Annam is food. There is a whole system, again, in the universe to produce this food for you. How many times we actually understand that this body that we think we are is actually nothing but Annamaya. What is annamaya? Modification of food that we have eaten. So our whole body is nothing but food. And body and mind are connected. Your body and mind are not two separate entities. So therefore, it is extremely essential to eat mindfully. So we talk about, in modern context, healthy food. You know, things like that. But the vedic concept is Sattvik, Rajasik and Tamasik food. So what is Sattvik food? So the definition of Sattvik food is not necessarily what we call healthy food. You know, healthy food, the fat keeps changing. One day, ghee is considered to be healthy. Next day it is considered to be nothing but fat. So the definitions keep changing about what is healthy and what is unhealthy. But the vedic definition of what is Sattvik food doesn't change over a period of time. And what it says is— look at the criteria. The criteria is if it is easily digestible, it's light foods, easily digestible foods which will not over consume your energy, so that your mind is available for you to think about bigger things. If your whole system is so busy digesting all these heavy, heavy foods, the mind is dull. And if the mind is dull and sleepy, it cannot be alert. So the definition of Sattvik food is which actually keeps your body going. It nourishes it, right? So that it's healthy. But ultimately, it is not so taxing on your body, that it makes the mind space available for you to engage with something higher. Now, what is Rajasik food? Rajasik food is defined as that which pleases your senses, so it pleases your tongue. So, you know, sometimes fatty foods or tasty foods or pungent foods or, you know, spicy foods, they really please our tongue. But at the same time, all these foods are taxing on the body, and they don't keep the mind as alert as one is required. And sometimes the mind also becomes, you know, if you eat very spicy food, then, you know, the mind becomes a little pushy and aggressive. So that also has an influence. Definition of sattva and rajas is not only the impact it has on your body, but also on the mind. And what is defined as Tamasik food? Tamasik food is that where you harm somebody and consume that food, not only non vegetarian, but the definition is: yāta-yāmam gata-rasaṁ. In the Bhagavad Gita, it is explained. And what it means is old foods. What old food means is that things, you know, suppose it was prepared five days ago and you freeze it or you put it, and then you eat it. So what… According to the vedic tradition, it may still remain hygienic, but it loses its subtle value of nourishing it. It loses its prana, it loses its chi. And what remains is only carbohydrates and fat. So it is really, it has diminished in its capacity to nourish you because prana from the food has gone away. So old foods are considered to be Tamasik food. And so this is how it is divided.
AB: In fact, some of the people I know who really believe in Sattvik food don't even reheat the food. They eat it as soon as it's cooked. Because otherwise, again, it moves down the scale of being Sattvik.
NM: Absolutely. Many cultures throughout the world, like I lived in Thailand, they all eat fresh foods. It's prepared and people consume it. There is no concept of conserving the food and eating it after one month or after 15 days. That doesn't exist.
AB: The vedic lifestyle has this concept of Brahma Muhurta, where you’re supposed to wake up before sunrise and you know, do your meditation and things like that. Talk to us about this dinacharya concept of the vedic lifestyle, how you're meant to spend your day.
NM: Yeah. So since the sun is a blessing, we are supposed to get up before the sunrise and welcome the sun. Just not only get up before sunrise, but welcome the sun and ask for his blessings. And what do we chant? We chant the Gayatri mantra. You know, in front of the sun, there is no possibility of any darkness to exist. So symbolically, the light stands for knowledge. And if there is knowledge, then there is no scope or there is no place for ignorance. So praying Gayatri Mantra is about, “Hey, lord, sun, light up my mind and lead it in the right direction so that I can live my life effectively, alertly and with clarity.” Every day you ask for sun to remove all the ignorance, all confusion, all vagueness in your head and take your mind in the right direction towards clarity. Now, life is a series of decision making. And if you ask for clarity of mind, you have basically asked for everything. So this is one thing that we do. And then, of course, you know, even before chanting the mantras, you have to clean the body. You can't be all dirty and, you know, connect to the universe. And then in the vedic times there was something called Nitya and Naimittika karmas. What is Nitya karma? Nitya karma is every day you perform these homas, these agnihotra rituals. And then essentially, as I told you, you show gratitude. Varunaya svaha, Indraya svaha, Aditya svaha. You show gratitude towards all these different forces and you ask for help, right? You ask for wealth, you ask for clarity, you ask for intelligence, you ask to remove obstacles. So these are all the mantras of Agnihotra, which is asking for blessings so that you can live a meaningful life, an alert life and asking for good health. Naimittika karma is something which is done periodically. So on the full moon day, you have to do some rituals. On New moon day, you have to do some rituals. Pradosha Day, which is the 13th day, you know, some prayers, like Rudram, one has to chant. And then you also have some days, you know, where you offer your prayers for your ancestors, your ancestors who contributed to your being, who you are and giving you all the opportunities about living and everything that surrounds you. So you live, you know, not only with the forces you're very aware of, you know, your existence with everything else and how it impacts you and not in your little corner, only operating from this is what I wanted. This is what I don't want. So it's a life which is lived with all the rituals and all the prayers. It's a prayerful life.
AB: From what I can understand, you're living in alignment and harmony across space and time.
NM: Absolutely, absolutely. It's not just earth, it's space and time and all the luminaries that exist and how they impact you. And it's just incredible, that level of awareness. And you acknowledge it. It's not just in your head, you acknowledge it and you actually iterate it.
AB: Wonderful. Now, Neema, I wanted to ask you about another thing. So remember you were talking about Svetaketu, that the other story about Svetaketu, you know, there's a bunch of stories. So that story where he comes, where his father decides, Uddalaka decides he needs to get rid of the pride. So he makes him get a fig and he makes him chop it, cut it up and inside were seeds and he makes him cut up the seed and inside was nothing. And he said, this is the essence of the whole entire fig tree in there. And that's like recognising our own essence and our true self. And, you know, it's not tangible, it's not physical. And like you said, you know, we are part of this much bigger reality. So this self awareness concept, you've talked about in your book, ‘Living with the Vision of Oneness.’ So tell us, how do you suggest we develop this side of our lives, this self awareness?
NM: Well, there are two things about self awareness. One is like your connection, as I just talked about, with not just this earth, but across time and space, as you said. So that's self awareness, right? That makes you more responsible. But here, in this particular example that you are talking about, there is something else; that self awareness is something a little different. And what it is is essentially— who are you? Are you an individual? So, as I just told you, that our whole identification is with the body and mind. Suppose somebody asks us who we are, we describe ourselves as, I'm a female, I'm this many years old, you know, I'm the daughter of somebody. This is my profession. So our whole identity is around this body and mind. And what Upanishads say is, this physical body is nothing but Annamayya. What is Annamayya, as I told you, is all the food that you have eaten which is intelligently put together to become all these different organs which are able to interact with the world. So the body is just nothing but food and five elements put together. So that's not my real identity. Then the next identity we have is with our mind. Whatever happens to our mind becomes…
AB: That's the Manomaya Kosha, right?
NM: Manomaya Kosha. So that's Manomaya Kosha. What it means is— every day how many thoughts do we have? 60,000 thoughts. Approximately how long does each thought remain with us? For a fraction of a second. But while that thought exists in our mind, our whole identity is connected to that thought, which is constantly fleeting. The thoughts come and go. Thoughts come and go. They don't last for long. In your presence, the thoughts come. And so before that thought came, you are there. While the thought exists, you are there, seeing the existence or presence of that thought. Once the thought leaves, do you go? You don't go, you remain. So what is that presence which is not the body and not the mind, which enables you to recognise the condition of your body, the changing conditions of your body and the changing conditions of your mind? It is like when you open the seed, you don't see anything. So, beyond body and mind, what do you see? We don't see anything. But there is a presence. There is something, there is a presence which allows you not only to recognise your conditions, of body and mind and everything else, the external world. So what is the nature of that presence? The Vedas say, it is Brahman. What is this Brahman? Brahman is an existence. And what kind of existence? It is not just an inert existence. It's not only sat, but it is chit. What is chit? It is of the nature of consciousness. So sat and chit, it is the truth of not only your body and your mind, but it is the truth of everybody. So that is Anantham. Anantam means it's limitless. So that is invisible to us because we only see the forms. But actually, this presence is the one which is a permanent presence which doesn't come and go. It never dies. It is an immortal presence in whose presence all these forms come and go. So what is the mistake that we make? We identify ourselves with this form and we forget that we are the essence and we are limitless. So this is something that the Vedas talk about. Now imagine if you want to see this presence. Are you able to see that presence? It's the presence because of which you see everything else. So you're not able to objectify it because it's not an object. It is the truth of you. And this is why you need the teaching of Vedas to tell you that your truth is the truth of everything. Between my presence and your presence, between your body and my body— there is a difference. Between your mind and my mind, there is a difference. But between that presence which allows you to see your body and my body and my presence which allows me to see my body and your body— what is the difference?
AB: There's no difference. We're connected there. At that level, we're one.
NM: Yes. At that level, we are one.
AB: I also wanted to ask you about the teachings of the Vedanta. How can they help us with situations such as career pressures, relationship issues, those kinds of things?
NM: Yeah. So, you know, I do one seminar on freedom in relationships. And it's so popular, Anshu. And what does it show? That all of us, to a certain extent, we struggle with relationships, you know. People we love the most, you know, they sometimes become the cause for all our worries and all our struggles. And unfortunately, people talk about Gita telling you to detach from the world and not to be too connected because that causes suffering. But actually, Gita is talking about the fact that love is something which is essential, essential for human beings. And if you stop giving love in the name of detachment, you actually do a lot of harm to people around you. So what it talks about is that our love is something very beautiful, but our love gets a little bit distorted with a sense of control. Sense of control means the person that you love, you want to control the most and you want that person to do what you want to do. [With] love also, at times, if you don't remove the distortions, it creates jealousy. You know, we don't want to acknowledge it and we don't want to accept it. The key to a relationship is not wanting the other person to change or to control the other person. Look at our own distortions and to remove those distortions. And as we remove those distortions, we become basically a person who's pure love. An objective. And we become accommodative.
There is another thing. There is a beautiful value which is talked about in the Gita, in the 13th chapter, which is called the value of ashanti. Ashanti is not Shanti. Shanti is peace. Ashanti is an accommodation. Certain amount of accommodation is necessary. But how do you accommodate? If the other person is in denial, you accommodate differently. So you don't have to be uniform and just kind of say, oh, let that person be whoever that person is, I'll just accept everything. It's not a passive acceptance, it's a discerning kind of a thing of, you know, allowing that person, helping that person, not labelling that person, and at the same time, at times drawing boundaries. Like Lord Krishna told Arjuna to draw boundaries and say that now enough is enough. Duryodhana has gone too far. Now you have to stand up. Even that we have to learn.
AB: Yeah, absolutely. Fabulous. Now, I also want to ask you about. There's a story in Vedanta about a sage who has a snake wrap himself around his foot, and the sage just stays mindful and present and calm. Will you tell us that story? And what is the essence of it? What do we get out of it?
NM: So, in fact, I'm not really familiar with that story, but I'm familiar with another story which is very similar to this story, and that is in Mahabharata. In Mahabharata, Karna was studying archery with Parashuram. And one day they had gone to the forest and Parshuram was tired and there was no place to lie down. So Karna offered for him to sleep on his lap. So then Parshuram was sleeping on his lap. And since it was a forest, there was one scorpion which came and stung Karna. And Karna was in deep pain and he was bleeding, but he did not move an inch. Why did he not move an inch? Because he did not want to disturb his teacher, who was resting. What happened is the blood started flowing and it touched his body, and the warmth of the blood woke Parshuram up. What does it tell us? That not to be afraid of snakes or just continue to kind of suffer and not put out any resistance? What do these stories tell us? What do they symbolise? They symbolise what we call certain willpower.
AB: Neema, would you like to leave us with some last few pearls of wisdom for the people who are trying to follow a vedic way of life or anyone who might want to take it up?
NM: Yeah, I think what I would say is, please remove this idea that material life and spiritual life are two separate things. Because, unfortunately, we think that when we are young, we have to be engaged in material life. And only when we are old and towards the end of our life and we have nothing to do, we move towards spirituality. There is no such dichotomy. Actually, spirituality is not about living life. It's about understanding life totally. And when you understand life totally, you can live with freedom. So don't wait till old age to study Gita or study Upanishads. They are very relevant in life and they increase, really, your levels of satisfaction tremendously.
AB: Thank you so much for that chat. I've learned so much from you. Thank you. And I'm sure a lot of people are going to be very grateful to you.
NM: Thank you, Anshu. Thank you for giving me an opportunity and I hope people who listen to it, you know, get something from it and that makes a little difference in their life.
AB: Thank you. Thank you for being here with us today. I hope you learned something new. I hope you will subscribe to our podcast so we can continue to give you this service for free. See you later. Stay well.
